If the price of BTC continues to rise, will Karpelès profit in the end? [x-post /r/bitcoin]
So Bitcoin claimants in the Mt. Gox downfall have agreed to receive under $450 per Bitcoin if/when the bankruptcy pays out. If the value of BTC continues to rise, to the point where 100% of genuine creditors can be made whole again, will remaining funds go to Tibanne (Mark K)? Or will he take the remainder and distribute among BTC holders?
In the IRC obtained by FOX Business, Karpeles denies the document was produced by Mt. Gox, but confirms that it is “more or less” legitimate.
More vague statements:
Karpeles says that any Bitcoin he personally owns was on Mt. Gox, meaning he will lose money if the exchange fails. In response to a question about how much he personally stands to lose, Karpeles writes, “well, technically speaking it's not 'lost' just yet, just temporarily unavailable.”
I am getting incredibly frustrated seeing Mark continuously post that Mt. Gox is now solvent and can pay back all of it's debts. He's trying to spin this as him being the good guy and trying really hard to "help" us get our money back. Don't let a known scammer and thief spin this. He had bots manipulating the price of bitcoin on his exchange. He sent $3million from customer deposits into his own personal bank account. He fled France to avoid facing jail time for the computer fraud charges he was found guilty of. He manipulated Mt. Gox's databases before he filed bankruptcy. Don't let him spin this. We lost bitcoin. Getting paid back in full would mean getting the CURRENT monetary value of our bitcoin back. Not $483 out of $3350 while u/magicaltux keeps the increase in value all to himself. If he wants to help, he'd return the money he took. Every time Mark posts some absurdity that he is able to pay everyone back in full, people need to continuously point out how obviously false this is. Essentially, what Mark did is steal everyone's money for 3 years. Then he tries to return the value of everyone's assets at the price 3 years ago when he stole it. He's keeping the extra value for himself and trying to influence public opinion that he's a good guy and has earned everyone back their money. This is such bullsh*t it's absurd. We are only receiving a minor fraction of our money. No one should be falling for this good guy act or believe that we are being made whole. Edit: I would like to see Mark acknowledge that returning $483 for every $3350 we would own if he didn't steal everything, is NOT being made whole again. It's less than 15% and he needs to stop saying how everyone is able to get all their money back.
I've seen some troubling posts that people seem to be trusting u/magicaltux now. Let's not forget who he really is and what he did. He claimed the Willy bot was a lie, except he has now admitted to it in court. He also transferred $3million from customer accounts to an account in his own name. Databases from Mt. Gox have parts missing. He knew Mt. Gox was insolvent and did nothing, hoping that no one would notice. He is not to be trusted. I've also seen some posts about how Mt. Gox is solvent because the price of bitcoin has gone up so much that it can cover everyone's debts. This is absurd! Mark seems to be pushing this point as well. Getting paid back at around $500 per bitcoin is NOT the same as us getting our money back. Mark can't just decide to steal everyone's bitcoin for 4 years and then when it goes up about 5x give everyone back 1/5th of their value and hold the rest. This is insanity. Lets not forget that Mark is a liar and a thief. And anything besides getting our bitcoin back is not being made whole. He is also pushing the narrative that btc-e stole the mt gox bitcoin. There is no proof of that, only that they laundered it. Don't let him trick you, he still has a lot of explaining to do with regards to how he handled mt. gox and hid the fact that it was insolvent (perhaps even stealing some btc himself). At best, Mark Karpeles is criminally negligent (how can you not notice someone stealing 650,000btc over a period of years!), at worst he embezzled money and manipulated records for his own enrichment. People should not be turning to him for advice or even considering trusting anything that comes out of his mouth. He's also been charged with fraud in France and fled to avoid jail time. Don't forget what type of person he really is. Edit: Here is to hoping Mark sits in jail for a long time, or does something to actually make this right. That means not giving us $483 for every bitcoin we are owed, but instead actually giving us our money back that he took.
Let me get this straight - Mark and his minions are not going to like this post
Mt.Gox was a custodian of its customers’ asset in either fiat currencies or in bitcoins. It entered the bankruptcy mainly because it had lost (as it so claimed) a significant amount of asset belonged to its customers. In order to fully apply the bankruptcy rules in Japan bitcoins were converted to Japanese Yen based on BTC exchange rate at the time picked by the court appointed trustee. This had to be done for the purpose of allowing all creditors of different asset types to agree on the final distribution of the company’s liquidated asset. In the unlikely event that all lost assets were found and recovered, the bankruptcy proceeding would end with all types of asset returned to their rightful owners in their original forms. Lately there have been online posts attempting to condition people with the idea that bitcoin creditors are only entitled to JPY50058.12 per bitcoin regardless of the actual outcome of the asset recovery. In other words, people should get ~$485 for each bitcoin they had in their Mt.Gox account even if all the lost coins are recovered next week, simply because these Mt.Gox customers had electronically consented to the BTC-JPY conversion rate set at the time when they filed their claims online. Equally absurd is the idea of “surplus” – because most bitcoin owners had filed claims online, therefore they are only entitled $485 for each bitcoin they kept at Mt.Gox despite the current per bitcoin price of over $4,000. The excessive amount after robbing the customers would result in a “surplus” that could turn the company solvent again. To these ridiculous false hope spreaders, we the creditors need to make our voice loud and clear – forget about “surplus” or “solvency”, they ain’t gonna happen, not before we recover all the lost coins. We should also fight and make sure any coins belong to MagicalTux are not part of the trustee’s approved claims as we shouldn’t shoulder his loss caused by his own negligence. Japan and Bitcoin will turn into long-term jokes if former Mt.Gox customers were to be robbed the 2nd time under the Japanese court system.
NOTE: I'm trying my best but because of the sheer volume of tidbits popping up every day, this post might ocasionally miss some updates. Please feel free to point it out in the comments whenever you feel there is information missing in the post, thanks! A note on recovering funds: We have no information on how to recover fiat/bitcoins/goxcoins yet and MtGox has only given very vague statements so far. It is speculated Mark Karpeles (CEO of MtGox) is currently figuring out what to do and not flying to the Bahamas with our money. It is advisable to have patience and wait for new developments on the subject for the time being. March 26th, 2014
Following its application for commencement of civil rehabilitation, MtGox Co., Ltd. consulted with the metropolitan police department with regard to the disappearance of bitcoins which is one of the causes for said application. MtGox Co., Ltd. hereby announces that it has submitted necessary electronic records and other related documents. MtGox Co., Ltd. intends to fully cooperate with each competent authority. Further, MtGox Co., Ltd. continues to make efforts to clarify facts as quickly as possible and to recover from damages.
Match 25th, 2014 A new rumor has surfaced twitter, currently unsubstantiated, from @CanarslanEren who according to his previous tweets would have previously either guessed correctly or know in advance about the recovered 200K BTC (emphasis mine):
Within a few days(or hours) @MtGox will announce that "they found ~670.000 #bitcoin & may release some BTCs to the victims. @PatronaPartners
There's a new update on mtgox.com confirming the previous story of having recovered 200K BTC that were thought lost. Key points:
On March 7, 2014, MtGox Co., Ltd. confirmed that an oldn format wallet which was used prior to June 2011 held a balance of approximately 200,000 BTC (199,999.99 BTC)
For security reasons, the 200,000 BTC which were at first on the 7th moved to online wallets were moved between the 14 th and the 15th to offline wallets.
The bitcoins held today by MtGox Co., Ltd. amount to a total of approximately 202,000 BTC, including the above 200,000 BTC and the approximately 2,000 BTC which existed prior to the application for commencement of a civil rehabilitation proceeding.
March 20th, 2014
Several users were reporting issues with the balance-checking tool online at mtgox.com, namely that bank transfers and transactions stuck in progress were not showing. This is now apparently fixed and balances seem to have been accordingly updated. Thread here.
In line with the blockchain movements we've seen for the past few weeks and the respective MtGox API activity, finally a japanese news article appeared where MtGox lawyers announce MtGox has found and owns 200K BTC, translation, courtesy of h1d:
Bitcoin exchange Mt.Gox which collapsed in February announced on 20th that they have found they're still in possession of the 200,000 BTC out of the 850,000 BTC that was reported to be lost. According to the lawyer, they found them on the 7th of this month by searching through a storage on the internet called a "wallet" which was being used by MtGox up until June 2011. MtGox has reported that they have lost almost all of the 850,000 BTC owned while filing for bankruptcy protection on February 28th.
A new update on mtgox.com is now online: account holders can now provide their login authentication data on the site to retrieve the last status of their wallets for convenience. It would appear that this update is legimitate, Redditcoinstates:
I just called the MtGox call centre in Japan - they confirmed that the login has been put there by "legal" and they have not been hacked. I called this number from the original banckrupty announcement (I called from Australia - we are only 2 hours ahead): +81 3-4588-3922. A nice man with an American accent said that the login has been put there by "legal" for users to check their balances and that the website has not been hacked.
Redditcoin asked for transaction history data as well:
I called the number again (about an hour later) - again, absolutely no waiting - I called again to ask about my transaction history. The same man answered, with the American accent (although sounded Japanese), who spoke impeccable English. He said that the transaction history is still unavailable because the courts still have to "polish" it (whatever that means). I said I needed it for taxation purposes. He replied by saying he will "check on this, and post an update on the website soon".
As for the balance data that can now be retrieved on mtgox.com, the site notes (emphasis mine):
This balance confirmation service is provided on this site only for the convenience of all users. Please be aware that confirming the balance on this site does not constitute a filing of rehabilitation claims under the civil rehabilitation procedure and note that the balance amounts shown on this site should also not be considered an acknowledgment by MtGox Co., Ltd. of the amount of any rehabilitation claims of users. Rehabilitation claims under a civil rehabilitation procedure become confirmed from a filing which is followed by an investigation procedure. The method for filing claims will be published on this site as soon as we will be in situation to announce it.
The MtGox API which used to list pending transactions has been removed today. In the past few weeks, this API had shown that the hundreds of thousands of BTC moving in the blockchain connected with MtGox wallets could still belong to Gox. Thread.
we are working on resuming service, can't say how soon it'll be
While the authenticity is still in question, if true this would be in line with all the rumors and hints we've seen up until now. March 15, 2014
The hundreds of thousands of coins moving in the blockchain that MtGox allegedly still own have been spotted doing something new: the outputs are now merging in new addresses of 2K BTC each. This was first spotted in this thread and later confirmed here. As usual, we have zero indications of what this means yet. -Mahnspeculates:
The only thing I can imagine myself is that whoever is doing the splitting decided 50 BTC was too little or would take too long and switched to bigger outputs per address.
New movement in the MtGox order book as reported by their still online API has been detected. Thread.
March 14th, 2014 There's a new update on mtgox.com concerning their Chapter 15 US filing. It contains no new information other than the confirmation of the news that appeared on March 11th. March 12th, 2014
MtGox US subsidiary assets have been temporarily frozen by US Judge. Story here.
"On February 7, 2014, all bitcoin withdrawals were halted by MtGox due to the theft or disappearance of hundreds of thousands of bitcoins owned by MtGox customers as well as MtGox itself. The cause of the theft or disappearance is the subject of intensive investigation by me and others -- as of the present time I believe it was caused or related to a defect or "bug" in the bitcoin software algorithm, which was exploited by one or more persons who had "hacked" the bitcoin network. On February 24, 2014, MtGox suspended all trading after internal investigations discovered a loss of 744,408 bitcoins presumably from this method of theft. These events caused among others MtGox to become insolvent and to file the Japan Proceeding."
I picked up silkgox.com the other day thinking it my be a good home base (tongue-in-cheek) to aggregate information connecting Silk Road/DPR/Mark Karpeles/Mtgox following recent allegations.
Anyone out there want to run with this or any other ideas? ftr, not something i'm looking to sell or cash in on (unless MagicalTux is interested...) couple starter links that seem to connect so far. forbes dpr interviewwiley reportThe MtGox 500
Disclaimer; Do not overly rely on the information below, a large part of this is speculation, and while I have done a bit of research I do not claim to be any kind of authority on PPC. If you find any mistakes please inform me and I will attempt to fix them ASAP. What ppc has going for it
PPC is relatively fast compared to most other crypto currencies, and has a fixed transaction fee unlike other crypto currencies such as bitcoin.
Is so far the only crypto coin built on the idea of proof of stake(yet). [Why should this matter?; In cryptocurrencies based of proof of work, things like confirmations(e.g; a lot of exchanges require 3 to ten confirmations before they accept your bitcoin) are done when blocks are mined, this is fine as long as blocks are being mined, but when an error occurs(like TRC yesterday) where a difficulty adjustment results in a large amount of the miners leaving, the currency grinds to a halt and no transactions can be completed. With proof of stake coins which have allready been mined carry out these functions, so ppcoin can continue to function even in the absence of miners.]
Energy Efficency; This leads to Peer to Peer Coin's third advantage, not being dependent of miners like other crypto currencies PPcoin is free to be energy efficient. Explanation; Bitcoin miners are buying bigger and bigger machines and using more and more electricity to generate Bitcoins, while not too much of a problem on this scale if Bitcoin ever becomes as big and as accepted a means of payment as credit cards or paypal the amount of power being consumed globally would be staggering, and very very inefficient(as all this is being wasted aside from the generation of Bitcoins.) PPC however adjusts difficulty geometrically as the popularity of PPC grows. So in such a scenario while the value of PPcoin might be astronomical, difficulty would scale so that it would be financially unprofitable for too many people to be mining. And thanks to proof of stake PPcoin would continue to function in such a situation.
Growing acceptability; PPC is being adopted by bigger exchanges such as BTC-e on the fifth of april, as well as hints of ppc at mtgox. Additionally PPC now has the third hightest Market Capitalization
Summary; PPC is fast, reliable, resistant to scenario's which cripple other altcoins, and is designed for the long term, and seems to be slowly growing in acceptability. What is going against PPC
While it has potential very few places currently exist which accept PPcoin. Bitcoin is now becoming accepted in several "real" shops, while litecoin now has it's own silkroad in the form of Atlantis. PPC unfortunately(like many of the other altcurrencys) does not yet have any such marketplace, and its only current use is the purchase of bitcoins.
PPC's value is currently fluctuating heavily, Vircurex's server issues right before BTC-e's implemetaion of PPC resulted in PPC experiencing its first major bubble in its first few hours unlike most other altcurrencys first few weeks.* *[mostly speculation; This might be as people knew that the supply of ppc would rise as soon as Vircurex came online, and were determined to sell before this lowered the value of ppc. Combined with people focusing on TRC as it was added to BTC-e first, and being suprised when due to the miner issue PPC reached the market first, and overbidding in their haste.]
A more temporary issue; PPC might soon be flooded as Vircurex comes back online, and if people panic and flood the market with this additional supply. HOWEVER given that the current price of PPC is currently equal or below the level of ppc prices before Vircurex closed, and additional currencies are in Vircurex the price of ppc might not actually fall all too much as people might refuse to sell at a loss.
Conclusion; While PPC is designed to be used on a wide scale, and seems to be growing in acceptability, it doesn't yet have enough services, and is facing a risk of collapse. So if PPC survives its current difficulties it should grow to equal and eventually exceed litecoins, but only if it manages to weather it's current pricing issues. edit; so if you want to help PPC succeed, please build services which accept ppc. edit 2; Issue three has passed. Hooray.
I looked at the market stats, and realized that there were tons of orders to buy BTC at $0.01 that would likely eat up any remaining bitcoins this seller had on the order. I figured if I put a buy order in for $0.0101,
It should be damn easy to verify this if anybody has a log. If what he says is true then MagicalTux is full of shit and cannot be trusted because he is implying that Kevin had some connection with hackers. UPDATE: From cgod's log it looks like NEITHER of stories really makes sense. But MtGox is buggy as hell, so we can only guess what exactly happened. MagicalTux's story does not make sense because "Kevin" placed his order to buy 262542.901 BTC @ 0.01 36 minutes after that huge-ass sell order. By that time about 240k BTC of a sell order were filled with buys above 0.01, that's why he got only 260k out of 500k order. Kevin wasn't the first to who have guesses the limit price of sell order (but this information was available though websocket API so there is nothing special about it), but he was first who risked to put relatively large order at cent price. To be more specific, first trade at price <= 0.02 happened at 13:49:46, only 298619 out of 500000 left at that time. Kevin's order came in at 13:51:10, by that time 272542 BTC left. Kevin's order was finally matched at 13:51:16, and as few trades slipped in between he was able to get final 261383.763 out of big sell order. So if Kevin and 500k-seller were working together it was probably one lamest executions ever: their plan could only work if other people wouldn't to anything for 36 minutes. Now about Kevin's story, it makes no sense either, because, according to the logs, he did not place his order higher, @0.0101, he just put the largest order at the right price. But other people bought 40k coins during the last 1.5 minutes, at <=0.02 price. So it is not like Kevin was the only large buyer, I bet it could finish just in a few minutes without Kevin.
There’s a new rumour that recently appeared on the web! It says that if Bitcoin (BTC) reaches price of $2400, the MTGOX would be able to get out the bankruptcy.In that case, the amount of 200k BTC which is currently held by the court would be transferred to a trust fund and eventually delivered back to creditors.. There is even a special calculator that is made by former Gox CEO Mark — Mark Karpelès (@MagicalTux) June 12, 2020. The bitcoin address contains 79,956.55 BTC which are currently unspent. This is not even the first time that Craig tried to claim the Mt.Gox hack addresses as his own. Back in 2018, bitcoin security firm Wizsec debunked it in its report “Kleiman v Craig Wright: The bitcoins that never were.” Bitcoin price is still rising. Experts predict the future rise for Bitcoin price as in 2017. 4 June 2019 $7,750 The price of bitcoin fell by more than 10%. 15 June 2019 $8,700 The price of BTC has risen above $ 8,000. Experts claim that the 2015 pattern is repeating. 16 June 2019 $9,311 Cryptocurrency updated the annual maximum at around $9000 Abstract: We look at the events surrounding the bitcoin price rally in June 2011 to $32 and the following temporary flash crash down to $0.01, on the MtGox exchange. We look at the incompetence of MtGox and examine the causes of the crash. We then look at the political battle and uncertainty which occurred in the aftermath of the crash. MagicalTux: all the broken withdraws have been re-issued A number of venture capitalists and macro investors believe bitcoin's price will break out soon following suit with gold’s recent
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